The following transcript has been edited for readability. Timestamps have been removed and minor transcription errors corrected. Speaker comments and context have been preserved.

Opening Remarks

Rich Portelance

Hello, everyone. My name is Rich Portelance, and I am the host of the EdGate Powers Podcast series and webinars. With me today is Jim McVety, and Jim is going to be on our upcoming webinar titled “Creating Procurement Confidence Through Scalable Systems”. Jim has a wealth of experience–he spent decades helping education companies understand the K-12 marketplace. And today, we're going to talk about something that many organizations overlook. By the time an RFP (Request for Proposal) is released, much of the buying decision has already been shaped. I'll let Jim introduce himself. I'm excited about this conversation, and I can't wait for you all to hear what Jim has to say on the topic. Jim?

Jim McVety

Rich, thanks so much for having me, and thanks to EdGate for putting on such a thoughtful series. As you mentioned, I am old. I have been in the industry for a long time, decades even. I'm the founder of a group called First Step Advisors. We work exclusively in the education space. We focus on market research and on building marketing and sales capacity for companies that sell and serve into the K-12 sector. Delighted to be here.

Discussion

Rich Portelance

Well, thank you, Jim. Thank you. And you've– I have to say, you come highly recommended. You do a lot of work with 1EdTech and get people over to the Bett Conference, and I know EdGate has participated and really enjoyed those adventures, and we appreciate the fact that you organized and lead those, so thank you. I want to set the stage here a little bit about the journey into education and what continues to excite you about working with education companies. You work with organizations big and small. What changes have you seen in how districts evaluate partners today?

Jim McVety

Well, yeah, it is an exciting time to be in education, but honestly, after 28 years it's always exciting. The truth is that for all the innovation that our industry undergoes every year and every decade, students still have to go to school and schools still need stuff. Now, I'm oversimplifying a myriad of nuances that go into that, but that's the truth of it. We are all in this to do well, but to do good, and that is for the students and for the adults who care about them. So, whenever I talk about things like market trends, about anticipating changes in the industry, and about positioning companies for success, I always try and reinforce the through line that it is, at the end of the day, about how do we do right by those students, their teachers, and all the support staff that surround them. 

So, I'm pleased to say that that's not changed. You know, since I started back in ‘98, kids are still going to school and teachers are still grinding through the work. I think what has changed is a little bit of the calculus that goes into how we serve them. Certainly, we have already undergone the digital revolution, but now we're in the midst of this AI  revolution. You know, people talk about evolution and revolution. I'm not sure what the next level of intensity is beyond a revolution, but I feel like we're there in some ways. 

And so, we have to be somewhat cautious as well about what it is we're trying to accomplish. So I'd say– I would say that for all that we've maintained a constant in the fact that schools still operate in service of students, we are operating, I think, at a pace that I've never seen before. A pace of innovation, the pace of new businesses entering the market, and also the pace at which they're starting to fail. So, it's an exciting time to be in the space for sure.

Rich Portelance

Well, that's an interesting way to frame it up, because pace does dictate how things progress through that cycle. So, when you talk about pace of change, the pace of change of the RFP process, of the standards, and how people have to be compliant also changes, and not only is the pace changing, but the rigor has changed as well, I would say. Does that resonate with you?

Jim McVety

Yeah, no, it really does. When you talk about moving fast, you'll often see companies at the risk of moving carelessly, and that's the important role that standards can play in our space. One of the constants I mentioned was the fact that, you know, schools exist to serve students, but another constant has been the role of standards in ensuring that we deliver high-quality materials that meet a level of rigor and a level of expectation that we are doing right by those students. Going back to… gosh, every reauthorization of the Elementary and Secondary Education Act (ESEA). Whatever you call it–No Child Left Behind (NCLB), the introduction of Common Core, the evolving role of third parties, such as The Reading League or EdReports. You know, everyone really is trying to work towards a set of standards. So I think it's important that even as we move at pace, we don't forget that we have to move at a standard that is becoming of students and teachers. That's where EdGate plays a role for sure in helping companies align to standards, but I think it's about more than that. In some ways, it's about setting the expectation that there is an appropriate way to do this work, and it has to be thoughtful, it has to be considered, and it has to be proven out. You know, just moving fast really isn't the hallmark of innovation. I think it's moving fast, but also in a way that's thoughtful and appropriate, and that's that's the important role that standards play, and I'm glad that they've always been a part of our space, and they should continue to be.

Rich Portelance

So, you know, you mentioned something in there that, you know, about the thoughtfulness of process, and I'm curious, from your perspective, when people or companies go to the RFP process and the procurement process, I think today it's– you know, there's a building awareness that the process doesn't start at the RFP–it has to start before then. Can you elucidate that because I know you've been through that process with companies?

Jim McVety

Yeah, I've lived that process, and it's not an easy one, which is why that idea of moving fast has to be tempered by the notion that you have to move in a complete way. And you're right to say that the nature of procurement has changed in some ways. It has become more sophisticated–it has become… I would say, more complete in some ways. You know, where we're seeing expectations around standards, for sure, around student safety and data privacy, and around integration, there is a lot to be said for being ready well before an RFP is even issued. So, what does that mean? Well, that means really paying attention to the market–really paying attention to not just the RFPs that you might pursue, but all the RFPs that are out there in the market, because what happens is they start to inform each other. 

So, it's not unreasonable to expect that a school or a state will look at other RFPs and say, “You know what, we should incorporate some of those expectations into our own work. So, it really is about paying careful attention to what's happening in the market and readying yourself. And there are a lot of ways you can do that, but it means really starting early and being fully prepared–both on the content side, as well as on the tech stack side when it comes to integrations and, of course, compliance with student privacy laws–all of those things are factors. 

So… Which also then means that there are a number of contributing groups within an organization. RFP readiness does not come down to marketing. They can tell a good story, sales can deliver that story, but product content, curriculum, and leadership all have to be on board with that story being true, accurate, precise, and worthy of the RFP that's being put out. So, it really is about not just pursuing, you know, an RFP, but being completely ready to manufacture that whole process across the board. 

Rich Portelance

So that… You know, I think there's a word–thoughtfulness–that comes to mind as you were talking, Jim, about process. And so, you know, if a company is being thoughtful about process and not just showing up at that time of RFP, but being prepared and putting themselves in the shoes of the school district or the state who are issuing the RFP, what are the things that a thoughtful company can do well before that RFP is issued to be on the radar, to be consistently in the conversation when the time comes? How do you prepare companies to be at the right place at the right time in a thoughtful way? 

Jim McVety

Well, on a number of levels, readiness takes, you know, slightly different forms. On the product side, readiness does take the form of being aligned to the standards that matter most, whether it's at a district level or a state level, or perhaps some set of national standards. And you just can't take those for granted on the product side. You might be a social-emotional learning provider, you might be a math provider, or you might be across STEM or literacy. You know, each of those has a set of standards against which you have to operate, and it's really important that you don't just check the internal box, but that you're able to put that on display for school districts when they start to do research. Because what's happening increasingly is that a school district will start to do research well before they issue an RFP. That research might be a committee of teachers, building leaders, and department chairs who actually go out and they ask their peers, they attend conferences, they do web research, and they are looking for a cross-section of companies that might be eligible to compete for an RFP. And that's well before the RFP is issued, but they're really looking at a number of measures against which they can  apply a rubric and say, "Yep, that company is worthy to be invited." So, it's one thing to do the work internally, but you also have to put it on display. So, that's on the product side. 

On the marketing side, you have to do another form of work, which is to make sure you can demonstrate succinctly and in a compelling way that, yes, you are meeting the standards that make them worthy of an RFP invitation. But, you know, you might also be doing that around funding; you might also be doing that around the issues of FERPA (Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act) and COPPA (Children’s Online Privacy Protection Act) compliance. So getting that story ready, out there, and present through channels, whether it's podcasts, through, you know, media channels and outlets, of course on the socials, you know, all of that's really important. And then having the apparatus to know that the RFP is going to be ready and coming out. So that means the sales team having relationships, putting in what we used to call windshield time. Now it's screen time, but it used to be that you'd get on the road, you’d go out, and you'd visit. Now you might do that, such as we're doing here: screen time. You might do that by getting on a plane and going out to pay a visit, or being out on a roadshow or at a conference, but putting that time in on the sales side means you're actually getting a signal at some point that you're going to be invited. 

And then, of course, it's all hands on deck. Having those systems in place where you're picking and pulling the “best of” from within your product portfolio to make sure that you're ready and that you're competitive. So, you're right. There's a lot that goes into it by the time an RFP is opened up for submission.

Rich Portelance

Well, you touched on some great points in the marketing components, whether it's the podcast or webinars, or the social media, and going to trade shows. I agree that those all make a huge difference in building credibility and understanding about what you're doing and what your product and company does. Do you see some mistakes–marketing mistakes–that companies make over the years that you can help people to avoid?

Jim McVety

I think one of the biggest mistakes that companies make is they take things for granted. We see this a lot when companies think they know better, and they take it for granted that they've innovated in this space. And that can be, you know, that can… highlight the promise of innovation, but it also becomes a real pitfall for companies that take it for granted. So, putting in the work is really important, and not just assuming that because you may have come up the ranks as an educator that you actually know all there is to know about developing a product. I think it's really important to rely on partners, whether it's marketing partners like ours, that's fine; there are plenty of us, or standards partners like EdGate, which is the standard for partnership in this space. I think it's really important to rely on those experts. Just because you have been an educator doesn't mean you are automatically qualified to be a product developer. You just can't take it for granted–instructional design is its own set of skills. It takes nothing away from the exquisite and profound skill set that a teacher has when they're in a classroom staring at, you know, 30 sets of eyeballs waiting for them to deliver some magic. That's a set of skills that I'll never have. But that doesn't mean it automatically translates to having a product.

Likewise, if you're coming up the ranks, maybe outside of the market, but you have a kid or a spouse who's been in the space, and you think you can deliver value, that's great–don't take it for granted. Just because your mother was a teacher doesn't mean you are demonstrably equipped and qualified to serve education. So, you have to rely on your partners; you have to understand that there are experts who are doing this work because it's their life's work, and you need to rely on them. So, that's probably the biggest mistake, would be that companies take it for granted. 

I think the other mistake that I see oftentimes is that they shortchange the effort. Checking a box is not the same as completing the form. What do I mean by that? Well, from a standards standpoint, you can do a quick scan of alignments, and you can say, "Yeah, we do that. Yeah, we do that. Yeah, we do that." But when it comes to the evaluation side, the folks paying attention, whether it's a district evaluation committee, you know, or at a state level for an adoption selection, they go so deep and so methodically through all the standards alignments that you have to be as deep and methodical on your end getting them ready. So, those are some of the big mistakes that I make. And then, of course, I've made all the millions of small mistakes along the way. So, we don't have enough hours in the day to go through all my mistakes, but those are probably the two big ones I'd count out for now.

Rich Portelance

Well, I appreciate it, Jim. And we all certainly make mistakes, and that's part of the learning process, but, you know, it's about how do you learn from those and not repeat it so that you can advance. And if– Let's think about this from the standpoint of if I was advising an edtech company today, and you had the checkbook, where would you invest your marketing resources, and where would you help them to build better credibility out there?

Jim McVety

That's a good question. I would say that to build credibility… Gosh… It's a good question because it isn't for me simply about picking the right channel–it's about being consistent with how you show up across all the channels. So, where I see companies perform best is when they they work to a standard–a standard of excellence–and they demonstrate that standard, whether it's on social media–LinkedIn, Facebook–using ads, whether it's at conferences, you know, having a thoughtful, intentional set of interactions at an event, whether it's at private meetings, doing one-on-ones with district leaders, making sure your team's really ready to show up, you know, in a very strong way. Consistency is really the key. So, if I'm going to invest anywhere, it's ensuring that I have the right people in place to take advantage of those channels. A lot of times, when it comes to marketing and allocation of investments, it becomes really about moving the beads on the abacus and saying, “Well, I can fit something… If I take this away, I can fit it over here. If I, you know, spend a little more time in regionals, then maybe I have to give up a national,” or, “If we run this lead gen program through ‘DA’ versus ‘THE’, you know, maybe we can get more out of it.” But I think that undermines the expectation. If you're just moving beads on an abacus, what you really need to be doing is saying, “How do we show up thoughtfully, intentionally, and at a standard that's befitting our brand?” We just can't, again, take things for granted. The conferences tend to be a really good representation of how a company shows up. I was just at ISTE (International Society for Technology in Education) along with a lot of our peers this… what, last month, I guess? Or two months ago, and it was really interesting to see the state of readiness that companies had versus others. Some, you know, had really big, elaborate exhibits, and it told me that they were more enamored with their own story than they were with how they showed up. I won't name names on those. 

There are others, though, that really understood their story is about the teacher, and I'm happy to always name good ones. An example at ISTE was Second Step, put on by the Committee for Children. It's a company we work with, but we had nothing to do with their presence at ISTE, so I take no credit for it. But what I can tell you is that's the kind of company that shows up thoughtfully, with great intention, understanding that the story isn't really just about them–it's about the impact they have on students and teachers. I'd love to see more of that across the board, because that tells me that if they're showing up really strong at a place like that, they're showing up really strong in all the other channels, and that's how they're going to win out at the end of the day.

Rich Portelance

You know, there have been two themes that have been running through this conversation, and I think it's worth repeating because you've spoken about, you know, showing up for students and teachers, because that's the core of what we do in the education market, and it's worth repeating. And then it's the standardization of the process, the consistency in how you do that, and how you show up. As you're doing that, Jim, how can a company accomplish those goals through some of the channels that are available? I mean, we talked a little bit about this, but I want to put a fine point on it so people understand, you know, if I'm starting today, and I have to build this credibility, what's that process look like? What are some steps that I can take to get there in a thoughtful and meaningful way?

Jim McVety

Yeah, it's a good question. So, to get at this work in a thoughtful and meaningful way means that you have to maintain a level of discipline when times are good so that you're ready when times are not so good, and I'm seeing that happen right now. There are a lot of companies who, you know, have post-ESSER (Elementary and Secondary School Emergency Relief Fund), or rather in the midst of ESSER, and what was thought of as a surge of funding and a high adoption rate of products. They, you know, pretty consistently, I saw companies, you know, staffing up pretty aggressively and accelerating through that process; they were also shortchanging some of the discipline that goes into production and into products, and perhaps most importantly, they were shortchanging the service side of things. It was easy to do that because the purchase orders kept coming in. That made things doubly hard when the purchase orders started slowing down. That lack of discipline started to show up when things got really tough, and renewals started to slow, and procurement started to grind a little bit, and districts were evaluating things differently. Those companies that lost some of that discipline in the fever of growth are now really struggling. 

That's why I think the market's seeing a number of both published and unpublished reductions in force. Those riffs are really, I think, not across the board, but are often the hallmark of a lack of discipline that companies allowed to get away from them. So, I think, if anything, really making sure that you're tight on how things are going to operate from a process standpoint, and that you have the right people and the protocols in place. Now, with that being said, of course, all roads end up leading through your website. And I'm always fascinated by how many times I see an anemic website that is, you know, glossy and looks good at the first blush, but then becomes confusing and mired in too much noise. So I think that discipline approach shows up on websites quite a bit. 

I think that disciplined approach, for better or for worse, shows up at conferences. If you have folks who are, you know, looking down at their phones and not engaged in the process, that's the hallmark of a lack of discipline across the board. We see that in social media, which gets a little bit weird at times when you think, what's the process? Where are the themes? What's the story arc? So, those are some of the gotchas that I think are catching up with companies right now. And of course, that's why I have a job is to help them through that, but I'd really rather not be in the business of fixing all the things. I'd really rather be in the business of compounding all the good things that we do.

Rich Portelance

It's a very good point. You know, back– I think it's been four and a half or five years when I first started working with EdGate, you know, we sat down and we were talking about what are the most critical items, and we started off with a brand exercise to build consistency across all the platforms and channels, because there was some inconsistency, and the CEO realized that, you know, having a thoughtful approach to how the brand is represented, how people see EdGate, you know, that was important. And so, we went through that exercise–it took about six months–but I think it paid dividends over the years, because every time you see the EdGate brand, it's consistent–the colors, the fonts, you know, all the little components of it. And so, it goes to– it speaks to what you were just talking about is, you know, that consistency and how you show up, where you show up, your website presence, and how it relays the message. You know, what are the key messages that you want to put out there to your audience, what should they understand about your company, and how is that represented through the site? So, I appreciate, you know, your answer there.

Jim McVety

Well, I'll tell you, and not just because you're the host of this interview and podcast series, I do agree with you that EdGate shows up very consistently. Both from a brand perspective–your look and feel has evolved to a place that I think is really contemporary and on point. But I think more to the point, it's that the way in which you tell your story is authoritative without being condescending, and that's a tightrope that you have to walk. You are the default experts in the area of aligning content, curriculum, and services to a set of standards, and maintaining that alignment over time. You could say, "Hey, we're the best, and that's all there is to it," but instead, what I've seen you say is, “We are exceptional at what we do to help companies make them exceptional at what they do.” So, you know, I'm probably not doing service to the actual story, but I do see you showing up consistently online and at events, such as when EdGate is at USA EdTech in Bett Conferences. You know, it really becomes… You really start to see that consistency across the board. So, kudos to you and the EdGate team for doing well. 

Rich Portelance

Oh, well, we appreciate it, and we certainly don't take for granted that we… you know, are– we we try to be authoritative in what we do, but we know that there's competition out there, and people expect excellence, so we try to deliver what we can. So, thank you for the compliment.  

One of the themes that we're going to explore during our webinar executive forum is the role that scalable systems play within winning adoption. You've seen hundreds of companies compete in the market. I'd love your perspective on that, Jim.

Jim McVety

Well, yeah, I think scalable systems are important. It's interesting, because we have a lot of early-stage companies we work with, including a number of companies that come from, you know, outside the U.S. They want to enter the market because, you know, it's one of the biggest education markets in the world, and it's got, you know, incredible potential. Of course, it goes without saying that the U.S. K-12 education market is actually 50 education markets, with each state representing its own set of standards, expectations, and ways of doing business. So, part of the understanding around scalable systems is saying, “What does scale mean to us?” For a large company that is, you know, well established and of some significant size, scale means addressing all 50 states. But, you know, for a lot of early-stage companies or folks new to the market, they may be well established in Asia, or the Nordics, or across Europe. 

You know, entering the market in the U.S. has a different order of magnitude. So, scale doesn't have to mean going after all 50 states–it might mean working with EdGate or others, finding those five states that make the most sense, and scaling to that as opposed to scaling to 50.  I spoke to a CEO last year who told me about his experience entering from Europe into the U.S., and he said, “Reaching our first million of revenue in the U.S. took 10 times the amount of investment as reaching our first million in our home country.” So, you consider the time and expense that goes into being successful in the U.S. market; you have to calibrate what that means and what scale looks like. 

So, whether it's going after five states or 50, it comes back to some of the themes that we've surfaced today: being consistent, being disciplined, being thoughtful, and not taking things for granted. And then also organizationally, making sure there's a sense of ownership about what each individual group is going to own in service of that process. And our guests, Kevin and Max, who you'll be having through interviews and a joint podcast, they're going to really be able to unpack a lot of that for you. But, yeah, it's a big deal, and one we can't take for granted.

Rich Portelance

Oh, it's a– you know, you made a great point in saying it's 50 separate markets. You know, every state has their own requirements, and whether that's third-party reviews or other ways in which they're evaluating and managing the process, and, you know, you can't just swipe this  across the board and say, you know, “We're going to– One process fits every state.” It doesn't anymore–Common Core has gone the way of the dodo. It does have some relevance in terms of, you know, common elements, but it no longer is the de facto standard. So, everything has changed, so you have to look at each state separately and be thoughtful about it. When districts and states evaluate potential partners today, how important are systems behind the product, and not just the product itself?

Jim McVety

Well, there are a couple ways I could answer that. Systems behind the product, I could interpret that as, you know, the tech stack behind it, which, you know, really is critically important. And a lot of what that means is, how do you protect my data? We've seen a number of instances in the market over the last 12-24 months where there's been a breach, and that's caused a lot of people some great concern–rightfully so. So, part of having systems that you can demonstrate is safe and secure is really important. Working with 1EdTech and achieving levels of compliance that are industry-based are really important. 

I think the other side of the systems piece, though, is making sure that you can deliver on the thing that you promised, and how do you get there? There are some groups, like the Reading League and EdReports, which I mentioned before, that have taken on a pretty prominent role in helping school districts and states understand which products and services should I be evaluating? It's been interesting to watch how certain states have, you know, with the adoption of new reading standards, for example, how they've really started to rely on, you know, folks like the Reading League to do an evaluation in advance, and only those that muster get invited into an approved list. So, I think for companies, particularly in the curriculum space, it is really important to be paying attention to, you know, what districts and states are paying attention to. We just saw a big adoption in California across the literacy board, and, you know, not everyone was happy with the results. And that's because, you know, the expectations are high, they're thorough, and they're complex, and it really takes into account all the things that we've mentioned here about being in that state of readiness. So, having those systems in place is critically important. 

Rich Portelance

Accompanying those systems, are there organizational capabilities that give buyers confidence that a company can successfully support an implementation? 

Jim McVety

So, I think for a lot of this, it really is about show, don't tell. And so, when we look at a company's marketing portfolio, for example, we could tell you that we have great service, but it's really about showing you. So, how do you do that? Well, at the outset, you have to immediately be ready with your responses–you have to be thoughtful and complete–but you also have to make sure that you've won the hearts and minds of your existing clients first. And that's what we don't quite see enough of. I really like companies that have scrolling logos of districts across, you know, their website, for example. That's a proof point–they call it social proof, you know, having a big number of clients. But really, having the logos is important. 

And if you can take it a step further, having the personas who you worked with ready to tell your story. There are companies that do this particularly well where they will not only have the district case study, but they'll have the individual responsible for the success of that program in their district ready to say, "Yep, I worked with them, and yep, I think they're really good." So getting down to that individual relationship piece is really critical. That's a really important way for districts who are evaluating programs, doing that research. As I said, those committees going out there, they're looking for that kind of stuff. They don't want to just hear you tell your story–they'd love to hear others tell your story for you. And that's how you end up showing up really strong.

Rich Portelance

It's a great point, those case studies, but, you know, having those relationships. So, it's a lot of work that goes into it, as you kind of started off saying, you know, you have to show up, you have to be at the conferences, you have to build a reputation. You've worked with companies big and small; what separates organizations that consistently win opportunities from those that struggle as they're trying to grow? Is there some key piece during that process that you say, “This is a winning formula?”

Jim McVety

Well, yeah. I mean, I think some of what I said earlier about not taking things for granted, about operating at a level of discipline that is consistent across the board, whether things feel easy or not. It's those companies that really tend to do quite well, even to the point where, say for example, on my side, I'm an agency, I come in, I try and do some good, and some of our most frustrating clients–the ones who are quite persnickety, who are very particular about brand, about narrative, about word selection–they frustrate me to no end, but they also give me confidence that they're paying close attention to the work. And that's one of the key indicators where I know they're going to be successful. If they just breeze through things quickly, if they… don't have discipline in the planning process, and if they don't set a high expectation for delivery, then I think there might be some cause for concern. And I've been put through the grinder on a number of occasions, where maybe I didn't show up as consistently or as strong as I could have. But I'm better for having done that, because now I can see that same attribute in the clients that we work with, and that's how I know they're going to be successful.

Rich Portelance

So, typically when you have a quality brand, there's a brand guideline that goes behind it, you know, to define what that consistency is. The same goes with your narrative–you know, what's the voice book for the company, or the way in which you articulate, you know, the values that you espouse. How do we do that for scalable systems to allow for consistency of showing up for our RFPs and our, you know, our replies? Are there some things that you're telling people to do that would help them to be more consistent?

Jim McVety

For sure. When we build a playbook for companies in the education space, one of the first things we do is we start with what's called a “message map”. The message map, at its core, takes the main value proposition of an organization and then maps it to individual decision-makers and influencers across the board. So, if you're a literacy company, or a math company, or an enterprise-level software, you have to know how you're going to deliver value to the school board, the superintendent, the director of technology, the assistant super of curriculum and instruction, the teacher, the building leader, the instructional tech coordinator, all down the line. And with that, we map out to what's their big motivation, what are their pain points, and what are the factors they're going to use to make decisions. So that grid becomes incredibly complex, but it also becomes a valuable resource when you start to think about everything from your long-form and short-form content marketing, your PowerPoints, and your RFP responses. It becomes this rubric against which you can say, “Are we aligning what we're saying to the pain points and the motivations that we've identified in the message map?” It's a critically important piece of our success. 

We surround that with what we call “guiding principles”. This is a little more nuanced–it's not the same for everyone, but those guiding principles speak to the tone and manner in which we deliver things. What's interesting is when we work with nonprofits, for example, a lot of those times nonprofits are founded by former educators. They are brilliant, and they are humble, almost to a fault. So sometimes we have to work on one of the guiding principles being a little more assertive. The, you know, startups who come from tech or are PE-backed (private equity-backed), they don't have a problem being assertive. So, a lot of times we have to soften their assertiveness with a guiding principle that says to maybe be a little more thought-provoking, for example. But those guiding principles are key to making sure that the message map is not only relevant from a content standpoint, but is resonant from a tone and a manner standpoint. So, those are two examples of how we try and set companies up for success. And then we see those find their way into all the assets that we might create, and push out through a variety of channels.

Rich Portelance

I think that fits in with a narrative that I'm seeing–and perhaps you're seeing the same thing–that districts are becoming more sophisticated buyers. And if they're more sophisticated, then they're looking more deeply at companies. Are you seeing procurement teams looking beyond compliance and asking deeper questions about how a company operates?

Jim McVety

We see that a little bit. I'd like to see it more, to be honest. I'd like to see a little bit more… investigation into the way in which a company operates into its stability as an organization, because it is really easy for vaporware to find a lot of attention. You know, with vibe coding even, with the design tools that are out there. It is stunning to see just how quickly individuals or small organizations can stand up what looks like a scaled and comprehensive enterprise. But once you unpack it a little bit, it starts to fall apart. So, I'm actually a little bit concerned about some of that behavior, and I'm glad that, in some ways, there's a reckoning–particularly around AI–that's coming. I think that's going to be a good exercise for the market where we, you know, we just dived headlong into this AI capacity, and I don't think there was enough intentionality around it. Others might disagree, but the fact that, you know, we're just going so fast without really contemplating, “Is this a direction we need to head?” has been worrying me for some time. So, I would love to see districts push a little bit harder on the nature with which companies are leveraging technologies like AI. Certainly, when it comes to student data privacy, protecting that information, we're seeing that more. And I don't have a problem with districts setting a higher standard every passing year with how we operate. That's good for all of us in the end.

Rich Portelance

I agree 100% with everything you've just said. Not only, you know, the consistency in how you market and go to market, and then you build your operational systems, but then, you know, asking the question about security, whether it's the student data or it's the system itself and how secure. Is it because, you know, people can create things very quickly, but if they don't create it in a secure and effective manner, then it becomes vulnerable and it opens up the district to vulnerabilities? And so, I appreciate you bringing that up. When we talk about those vulnerabilities, are there specific questions or things that you believe should be in place, or maybe it's some evaluations that schools should be looking at, and you advise companies to kind of go ahead and do in advance so that they're prepared for the future of how these things are going to be looked at? Does that make sense?

Jim McVety

It makes total sense. I think we can actually draw a lesson from the hiring process. Everyone's been through it. Some of us maybe not in recent years, but everyone has been through it. And unfortunately, a lot of people are in the hiring process right now. So, what's a classic question that comes up in the interview process? “Tell me about a time when things didn't go well or a mistake you made. What happened? And what did you learn from that?” If an interviewer does not ask that question, they've left a lot of things off the table that should be on the table. So, it's pretty standard. And I don't mean, “Tell me about a weakness, which you can then convert into a strength.” I'm–when we interview, we say, “Tell me a time where you really biffed it. What happened? What'd you learn from it? How are you better for it?” I always own my mistakes–that's a culture we try to engender here in First Step Advisors. And so, we do that as part of our interview process. 

I think that districts should do more of that. I think schools should do more of that. Whether you're sitting across from a sales rep in your initial call, what they're doing is discovery work, trying to understand what a district's needs are, what a school's needs are, and how do they line up. But, you know, that's an opportunity for a district to do discovery in its own right, where they can interview that sales rep, or that founder, or that committee that's presenting to you. I'd like to see them ask, "Tell me about a time that things didn't go well where you made a mistake. What happened? What did you learn from it? And how do you guard against it down the line?" We invite companies to tell us their best possible story at every turn. And I don't blame companies for doing that for sure. No one's trying to put all their mistakes out there; no one's trying to keep their dirty laundry aired out forever. But, you know, that stuff surfaces, and so you might as well walk right towards it. 

So, I think that kind of question we could be inspired by from the interview process should be used by districts to interview their potential vendors. Only by understanding what they've learned do they go from vendors to partners. That's what we're really after in the long run. But you can't do that without being really transparent, really honest, and just owning it. And so, you might as well walk right towards it.

Rich Portelance

Well, it's clear that you and your company, you walk the walk and talk the talk, and you know, as you're talking to the companies you advise, you are doing the same things that you espouse, and I think that's so critical, Jim. And I think we could have, you know, probably another whole conversation on some of these topics. I know we're getting closer to the end of our time. I did want to remind everybody that the “Creating Procurement Confidence Through Scalable Systems" webinar is coming up on Tuesday, September 15th. Jim will be there. There's a link below–you can register for that webinar. We hope to see you there because it's going to be a really good conversation with Kevin Gray, Max Brooks, and Jim. 

And Jim, so, I want to go– I want to kind of bring this back around. If there was one piece of advice that you'd give an education company preparing for the next four or five years, you know, you're looking out, I'm setting for growth–not just for the next RFP–what advice do you give them?

Jim McVety

What advice do I give companies looking ahead, say, to a five-year time horizon? You know, Rich, I actually think it's probably advice I should give myself a little bit, so… and I think it's that maintaining discipline is really important. Just, really, it's been a throughline of this conversation–this idea of being thoughtful, being intentional, and being disciplined. So, discipline doesn't mean confining innovation. Being disciplined doesn't mean limiting your aspirations for high growth and meaningful impact. It just means that whether it's the small things–being prepared for a call–or the big things–being fully prepared for an RFP response–having discipline means being ready at every level. And that's why I think this idea of looking at scalable systems around procurement is pretty important, because that's where, you know, your good discipline approach on those small things ends up delivering a big impact for your business, as well as for the schools you serve. And so, I think that's the advice I'd give.

Rich Portelance

I love that thought process, Jim, and, you know, consistency and discipline are important parts of life and of certainly education as things change. You know, one last kind of thought, because we talk about change, growth, and speed of the, you know, what's happening out there. One thing that we never touched on today was, you know, career and technical education (CTE) standards, which are proliferating, you know, as fast as the grass is growing in my lawn these days. Even though it's August, it feels like it's April. You know, how are you preparing companies to take advantage of the opportunities that exist, but also, you know, understand the nuances of that landscape, which is really going to transform education, in my humble opinion? 

Jim McVety

Well, it's a great question. It's actually– it's a good capstone to this conversation, because CTE is emblematic of all the promises and the pitfalls that we've talked about. Career and technical education is one of those markets that was, you know, on the periphery–it's kind of set aside–and if you could dip into it, great. But now, we've seen organizations, you know, building businesses around it. We've certainly seen communities grow significantly. And not only with an increasing level of awareness about the value of CTE, but really the respect for what that corridor or that pillar of education represents. So, for me, it does show promise, because the introduction of standards is incredibly important. 

You know, when you talk about workforce readiness, you're not just talking about soft skills, of course, but you're also talking about actual hard skills–industry-specific skills that are important to set students up for success, and those are driven by standards. You know, whether it's operating a lathe, or working in a CNC (computer numerical control) machine, or doing mechanics, or HVAC (heating, ventilation, and air conditioning), or engineering, all students have to meet a level of standards, but they also have to meet a level of academic standards. And that's really important. It isn't just a matter of knowing, you know, how a gasket interfaces with the rest of the components of an engine, but it's also making sure that they, you know, have the academic excellence and rigor to be successful, to not just follow a manual, but to, you know, think critically about the best path forward. So, I love that this market is really showing all its promise. 

The pitfall is that the market is prone to fads–it's prone to bandwagon mindsets. We see it all the time in marketing, going back, you know, ages to the No Child Left Behind Act, something I referenced earlier in our conversation. At one point when that legislation was passed, you couldn't wave a stick without hitting a company that said, "We are NCLB compliant." Whether that was true or not really didn't matter–everyone put that sticker on. We saw it with Common Core, which is now faded, but at the time, everyone was either aligned to Common Core, and then when they had enough time, they'd say they were built for Common Core. My concern around CTE is that companies and investors will see this purely as a market or a revenue opportunity. So soon, you'll be finding math companies saying, “Align to CTE standards and expectations,” or, you know, “Perfect for your CTE programs,” and that can be disingenuous if we're not careful. So, I think it's important to maintain discipline in how we approach that market, because we don't want to just optimize it for revenue’s sake–we want to make sure we do it right. So, it's a really good question, and it's worth examining over time how we show up for the folks in that space, because I think we have to do it in the right way. And we have the chance, and we owe it to them.

Closing Thoughts

Rich Portelance

Well, thank you for that, Jim. And I can tell you, I’ll give you a little insider ball game here, is, you know, our fourth quarter webinar series is going to focus around CTE. You know, we always talk about the state of standards in Q4, you know, and what is happening, what's coming, and I think CTE is going to be core to what we discuss. So, we'll have to, you know, get the conversation revved up again in Q4. I want to thank you for your time today, Jim McVety, First Step Advisors, USA EdTech, for all you do for the industry, and for joining us here today. I'll let you have the last word.

Jim McVety

Well, thanks, Rich, for this opportunity to share. You know, I'm often on your side of the table asking questions of others. So, it's been a delight to receive your invitation, and to come and share a few things that I've learned over the years. I hope it's helpful, and I look forward to continuing the conversation both on our webinar and also being a very, very committed student to your CTE webinar coming up in Q4. Thanks for this opportunity. I really appreciate it.

Rich Portelance

Thank you.